Obama Care, Obama Stimulus, Obama Cap and Trade
These three interlocking issues represent too much government intrusion and too much spending. Taken together, they could spell defeat for a deluded Democratic party in thrall to nutroot fairy tales about liberal mandates.
I'm no political expert, but I think if they pass Obama Care, outraged voters will punish them in 2010. Poll after poll shows America is just not that liberal, and the moderate middle that voted for the president has quickly become disillusioned with him. Anger at out of control government is not going away.
Democrat's "Go it Alone" Strategy:
Bill Clinton and other Democrats who are political experts say the party is doomed if they don't pass health care reform. I don't know what goes into their calculus, but I assume they are sincere, and here's why.
Big Gov+Big Media=Propaganda Victory
If they pass this, they can count on the coercive power of government to manipulate the immediate economic environment to short-circuit any uprisings. They could do things like decrease payroll deductions so people have more money in their pocket, extend jobless benefits, raise social security and medicaid and medicare benefits in the short term to create a false correlation between passing the bill and "things getting better." This would engender voter goodwill towards Democrats and reduce GOP protestations to mere sour grapes carping.
The Dems can also count on their powerful propaganda arm, the national media, to trumpet this to high heavens, creating a new wave of hope and change euphoria that results in victory in 2010.
This is just my guess, and I don't think it will have the success dems think it will. Again, I think too many people have awakened from their slumber. The hopium cloud has dissipated, the buzz is gone, and cold, harsh reality has set in.
GOP Nightmare Scenario: A Mushy Middle Compromise
The nightmare scenario for the GOP is that they sign on to some kind of mushy middle compromise that is neither fish nor fowl, socialism light with a smiley face.
If something like that passes with Republican votes, the GOP is dead and buried. Their own disgusted voters will finally disown them for good. This cracking the door open will reenergize Democrats. They gain a toehold and the Long March continues.
Compromise is not the GOP's friend on this one. Why do you think Carville and the rest of the liberal talking heads keep criticizing GOP stubbornness? It's the old Clinton tactic. I can't build myself up, so I'll drag you down in the mud with me. And the democrats, with the national media as their cheering section, always win the mudfight.
20 comments:
If they don't pass health care, the uninsured and those underinsured will be disillusioned and not activly support them the next time around, and if they don't pass it the neo-con lies about it that have penetrated the American-nut psyche will never go away.
If they actually don't compromise and pass universal health care like in Canada, France, Germany (and all the other civilized countries in the western world) the neo-con propaganda will start to fall on deaf ears.
Gov't actually can do something right!? Your head would explode... You can't ignore the success of France, Germany, Canada, et al. when it is actually replicated within your own borders.
Universal health care is a moral imperitive. Christians and non-Christians agree. How you don't is mind-boggling.
1. Tort Reform
2. Insurance reform (make everybody buy it in exchange for no kicking people out and no preexisting restrictions)
3. Government assistance for the poor to buy their own private insurance.
In case you haven't noticed, America is not like the rest of the piss down you leg in fear "civilized" world. We still like to make our own decisions without government help.
Maybe not all of us. There are some that are so benumbed by liberal government penetration that they are unable to get out of the way of a hurricane, even with 48 hours notice.
Dispatch from the "Civilized World":
Telegraph - Sentenced to Death
I love Matt Drudge
Ever think that there is a reason all of us of French, German, English, Swedish, and so on and so forth descent are not living in France, Germany, England, Sweden, and so on and so forth? We don't want to be part of your "civilized...translation; socialist countries".
Don't like America? Don't like the way we do business? Fine... STFU and stay in Canada. Apparently the 12 million illegal aliens here didn't think our country sucked so much they'd rather stay where they were.
The moral imperative isn't universal health care, the moral imperative is individual responsibility and self-sufficiency. Your ignorance and sense of entitlement are appalling. Your childlike grasp of politics (neo-con lies? and what socialist truths?) while mildy entertaining, contributes nothing to the rational debate.
Your false presumption is that you believe yourself entitled to have me (and others) pay for you, your lifestyle choices, and your offspring. While I believe in charity, charity at the point of a gun is not charity it's extortion.
Rationally rebut Silverfiddle's 3 points above, and maybe I'll listen.
"The moral imperative is individual responsibility." That's just non-sense.
1. Fine.
2. What about the people who can't afford it. Aside from that, why not mandate it, and have the gov't run it so it isn't so expensive? (no profits.)
3. Why private?
I know it fits into your "gov't can't do anything" ideology, but in France they do a good job running health care, and its cheaper.
Private industry is going bankrupt (e.g. GM) paying for peoples health care privately. When private insurance isn't working (e.g. not cost-effective) the other alternative is gov't.
Responsible for not bleeding to death when you're cut in an accident beyond your control?
You're just a moron Finntann.
And, no, I don't like America. It's all the Americans coming across the border to buy cheap medicine and see doctors in Canada I'm worried about.
Responsible for not bleeding to death when you're cut in an accident beyond your control?
You're just a moron Finntann.
And, no, I don't like America. It's all the Americans coming across the border to buy cheap medicine and see doctors in Canada I'm worried about.
CP:
Responsible for not bleeding to death when you're cut in an accident beyond your control?
Nonsensical balderdash! This has nothing whatsoever to do with government or private health care. You could bleed to death with either system.
And, no, I don't like America. It's all the Americans coming across the border to buy cheap medicine and see doctors in Canada I'm worried about.
It's actually the other way around, homeslice. Click the links below. The overburdened Canadian system is contracting with US hospitals to help with the overflow.
Do you think before you speak, or do you suffer verbal diarrhea? And you've got the balls to call Finntann a moron? Better look in the mirror (and do some research) before stinking up the place with more of your empty-headed verbal flatulence.
GO HERE! LEARN SOMETHING >>>>>>>>
http://www.breitbart.tv/canadian-health-services-send-patients-to-u-s-hospitals/
http://www.freep.com/article/20090820/BUSINESS06/908200420/1320/Canadians-visit-U.S.-to-get-health-care
http://www.ottawacitizen.com/health/Randall+Denley+Gutless+politicians+handle+truth/1874817/story.html
I think they have no chance of passing Obamacare and still will lose countless seats in both houses simply because of how they treated the American people in August; paybacks are indeed a mf.
Yeah, I'm the moron... why not do it like France, it's better and cheaper:
French Income Tax: Starting at 23,880 Euros (that's only 34K a year)...37.38% then, if you try to spend any of what you have left they hit it with a 19.6% VAT. But wait! The moron's not done yet...
Social Tax (Contribution Sociale Generalisee) 7.5% on income and capitol gains.
It gets better... since the French Social Security system is in debt, tack on the CDRD, or Contribution pour le Remboursement de la Dette Sociale, another .5% and another 2% for property income.
I haven't even gotten into inheritance taxes, gift taxes, wealth taxes, car taxes, tv taxes, dust bin taxes... and already La Republique is robbing it's people blind of damn near 70% of their income.
Yeah Great System, now who's the moron?
Wow, Finntann, for a moron, you sure know a lot of stuff!
The other thing completely discounted by the left is the quality of life over there. They live in 600 square foot apartments and drive lawn mowers with doors.
Gun ownership is practically forbidden; maybe they'll let you keep one at the local gun club, and free speech is becoming a thing of the past...
Because of the taxation Finntann cited, they just don't have the disposable income we do here.
http://warskill.blogspot.com/2009/04/slouching-towards-socialism-european.html
You have more disposable income, they take care of the sick.
I don't know, that's a tough one. I wonder which is better.
Like I have said before. Once you have enough for food, shelter and clothing, disposable income is just that. Disposable; except instead of buying bigger guns - for lack of a big ---- I think that using that disposable income for something like health care is actually a good idea.
As you say, it is disposable.
Also, there are a lot of other publicc services their income taxes go into.
You get what you pay for. You get gun shops and liquor stores, and they get medical clinics, metros, good public schools, etc...
I would say that for the most part the cultural differences argument Finntann keeps giving works (Americans -- Rednecks, French -- Cultured Individuals).
But when it comes to health care there is a moral dimension that come into play, and therefore the cultural differences argument doesn't work.
What if in muslim countries they didn't provide women birth control, life-saving surgical procedures, etc...
And no Silverfiddle, if I get a cut to one of my arteries, I get cared on in Canada (everytime!). In the USA it depends on if the private hospital has mercy for me if I am uninsured.
That's a big difference.
"They take care of the sick"?
Like in France a few years ago when the whole country went on holiday during that heat wave and tens of thousands of old people died? You mean like that?
Nobody is turned away in this country, so you're wrong again.
You have an annoying habit of making grossly incorrect statements, being proven wrong, then blithely moving on.
It must be a blissful world you live in, never having to consider reality...
And what moral dimension gives you the idea that you have a right to anything I produce? I may have a moral obligation to care for those unable to care for themselves, but you can't possibly construe that that implies a moral obligation for you to take from me and give to others.
How about the moral obligation to provide for yourself?
Exactly where does your sense of entitlement come from?
Moral obligation to provide for yourself. If you're Ayn Rand, that's a moral obligation, but the more sane and scholarly acceptable moralities would find that an idiotic statement.
Its a matter of rights. In France, whether there are tragic occurances or not, people have aa right ot health care and when something like that happens people are rightly outraged.
When people don't even have a right to see a doctor, that is an outrage, save any circumstances.
In
Moral obligation to provide for yourself. If you're Ayn Rand, that's a moral obligation, but the more sane and scholarly acceptable moralities would find that an idiotic statement.
Its a matter of rights. In France, whether there are tragic occurances or not, people have aa right ot health care and when something like that happens people are rightly outraged.
When people don't even have a right to see a doctor, that is an outrage, save any circumstances.
In America people don't have a right to health care. How is that a gross misstatement or untruth?
No one is refuesed medical care in this country.
Your arguments are idiotic, and you ignore facts when presented to you. Rebut Finntann's facts and address your arguments to what he said or shut up. You are wasting everybody's time.
No one is refuesed medical care in this country.
Your arguments are idiotic, and you ignore facts when presented to you. Rebut Finntann's facts and address your arguments to what he said or shut up. You are wasting everybody's time.
Everyone in America has a right to health care... they just don't have a right to have other people pay for it.
And no health care provider in the US has the right to refuse care based on the inability to pay. It's one of the reasons our costs are higher. The costs of those that don't pay are passed on to those that can. So in a way we are already paying for universal health care.
The main issue is government getting involved in areas that are not the purview of government. If we continue down this road it's only a matter of time before we have an abysmal European style tax rate. You can argue for a right to healthcare, clothes, food, transportation, childcare... but in order to finance it you curse everyone to mediocrity. The problem with idealistic societies is they help the few while harming the many. Remove the incentives for achievement by taxing them away and you wind up with a soviet style society in which everyone simply does the bare minimum.
In short, you are a fool.
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